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Re-fillable Built in Gas Containers

Total Posts: 88
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Posted: 6 years ago
I have been looking into having a refillable gas tank in my 2012 Sterling Eccless Caravan. I have read varied reviews with both the positives ( saves money when refilled ) and the negatives ( you have to take your caravan to the filling station ) and wondered if anyone can suggest which and what type are better to look at . I would say iu only usually get through 2 bottles a year and am not sure if this will be a cost effective thing to do.
Total Posts: 122
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Posted: 6 years ago
Hi Orangutang I looked into this a couple of years back and was advised not to bother unless I used about 20 bottles per year to recover outlay. last season when on a east coast site the guy on next pitch said he could fill his propane light weights for half price. so the guy on the other side took him up on it and they went to a local garage and refilled Eric,s bottle using an adaptor bought on E-bay and a bathroom scales It cost £8.50 to fill up. you must know the weight of a full bottle. place empty bottle on scales attach adaptor to bottle then pump hose, fill until bottle weights same as full bottle switch off. the bottle will be 80% full this is to allow for liquid gas to re-gasify for use. I believe this is illegal in UK but quite common practise in europe unless you have a fixed tank as in a motor vehicle.I believe they did it in the back of Eric,s Volvo estate. I hope they drove back to site with all the windows open.
Total Posts: 88
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Posted: 6 years ago
thanks sandgrounder that good advice. This seems to be what most people say that its a waste of money unless you use a lot of gas throughout the year
Total Posts: 314
Reported
Posted: 6 years ago
waste of money, look how much it costs just in fuel alone to tow the van to the garage to just fill it up!! & if you are all set up awning up, etc how much hassle is that, when i can just walk to most site offices and change my calor Lite!
Total Posts: 127
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Posted: 6 years ago
I looked at refillable gas bottles but what put me off was the cost of the bottle to buy was around £150 for a empty bottle. I too use between 1 to 2 6 kg bottles a year at the cost of £20 a bottle so it would take some years for the refillable bottle to start paying for its self.
Total Posts: 88
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Posted: 6 years ago
I think the only time it would be cheaper is when fuel stations did propane refills as well. The empty bottle price needs to come down aswell
Total Posts: 314
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Posted: 6 years ago
what do you mean 'I think the only time it would be cheaper is when fuel stations did propane refills as well.'
'The empty bottle price needs to come down as well.' this won't happen as its a pressure vessel.
Total Posts: 88
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Posted: 6 years ago
What I meant was if there were a wider choice of places to get the gas ( ie petrol stations ) from you wouldn't have to go miles out of your way to refill. Too true on the empty bottle/vessel as well £150 is a lot just for an empty bottle. I know it's a new idea but the people who are advertising this product need to consider the prices so as to get more people interested.
Total Posts: 228
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Posted: 6 years ago
First of all many garages do not like people filling up gas bottles that are NOT fixed into the vehicle, they are a fire hazzard and can ask you to stop, also filling the likes of Calor Lite bottles is illegal, they belong to Calor and if you are caravanning on the continent refilling stand alone bottles on garage forecourts IS illegal. The cheapest place I found for refillable gaslow bottles was Hamiltons in Ireland and even with the shipping costs they were cheaper than the UK suppliers and this is with the stainless steel hoses not rubber ones. The current average price of LPG is aprox £0.75 per litre, the bottles from Hamiltons have automatic shutoff valves so that you cannot overfill them and hold 11.5 litres per 6kg bottle so the price for filling 2 bottles on average would be £17.25 as against £44 for 2 Calor Lite refills thus saving £26.5 per fill. The cost from Hamiltons would be, delivered, £394 so if you were to buy these bottles it would take aprox 14 refills to recoupe the cost and that includes the gas as well, but lets not forget thats if you already have the Calor Lite bottles, if not then the cost would come down as 2 new full Calor Lite bottles would cost you £104 Any how why would you want to recoupe the cost in 1 year, every time you fill up you are saving so the cost eventually levels out but depends on your individual useage. If you have say 6 weeks away per year and use 1 bottle of gas per week then thats £52 for LPG or £132 for Calor Lite thats £80 saved for first year. A lot of people go away many more times than that and also a lot of people do what they term as dry camping, no hookup, so would use a lot more gas, these refillable systems make a lot more sense if you also have solar panels to go hookup free.
Total Posts: 314
Reported
Posted: 6 years ago
Most vans can be arranged to come complete with at least 1 calor Lite if you tell them the deal depends onit!
Whos fitting this delivered for £394?? as ANY gas instalation requires a 'gas-safe' registered fitter at at least £50 per hour!
As I said before what about the cost of taking the van tothe garage to fill it up? at 15p a mile if you have to travel just 30 mile round trip thats £4-50! the hassle if you are setb up & find you need to go & re-fill.
Most people don't 'dry camp' so a more realistic useage is 2 to 4 x 6kgs per year.
Look on e-bay for Calor Lites,much less thanthe £104 you quote & the actual cost on Calor site is £34-25 per cylinder!
Total Posts: 228
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Posted: 6 years ago
Go to any calor lite refil supplier and the cost for 1 refill is aprox £21 so for 2 that would be £42 as opposed to 2 gaslow refillable bottles aprox £18 depending on the cost of the LPG thats a saving of £24 every time you fill up.There are for your information at the current estimate 1400 public accessable LPG filling points in the UK. Where are you living if it is a 30 mile round trip to an LPG forecourt, for me 2 mins up the road and I live in a small village. Also any one can fit the gaslow bottles you just need to have it checked by a gas safe engineer before you use it.
Also for your information look on ebay for calor lite bottles they quote the refill price then you have to pay a deposite for the bottle or bottles taking the cost of NEW bottles to aprox £104 for 2, any one selling NEW bottles on ebay that is not a registered calor gas seller is BREAKING the law as the bottles belong to Calor that is why you pay a deposit for them when buying new ones if you dont have a bottle to put in when you go for a refill, any way if you use 4 bottles that is still a saving of £48 and there are a lot of people who go ralling at the weekends with no hookups so you will use more gas stands to reason.
Total Posts: 314
Reported
Posted: 6 years ago
anyone working down stream of the regulator needs to have gasafe qualifacations if its on a home, so changing a cylinder does not require you to be a gas safe engineer!
I know a lot of gas safe enginers & none I know would put their name to someone elses DIY instalation
I work delivering & conecting LPG cylinders to homes & businesses so do know abit about gas! from doing my ADR.
I have seen what this stuff does & anyone doing 'DIY' gas fitting is playing with?? FIRE!
as for refill pionts try to find one near Skegness, nearest, Huttoft or Partney, both over 10 miles away!
as for BREAKING THE LAW if selling an empty cylinder of any size is not allowed the police had better get to every car boot sale as there are always cylinders there.
everyone has their own idea of whars right & wrong, i think doing your own instalation is wrong, you don't, thats your right, BUT will your caravan insurance company think the same if its found your van blow up because you fitted your system??
Total Posts: 228
Reported
Posted: 6 years ago
Caravan gas installations are NOT covered by domestic gas regulations, what do you mean downstream of the regulator if it's on a home , just shows how much YOU know about gas regulations, no one but no one is allowed to touch domestic gas installations if they are connected to the gas supply unless they are gas safety registered and only the gas suppliers engineers are allowed to touch the pipes before they get to the meter. As for caravans anyone and I mean anyone can install refillable gas installations into their caravans as a diy project, it's a different matter if that caravan is hired out to the public, because then the caravan owner becomes a landlord and THEY ARE goverened by gas regulations, as I said before AND TAKE NOTE!!!!! DOMESTIC GAS INSTALLATIONS ARE GOVERENED BY GAS REGULATIONS INDUSTRIAL GAS INSTALLATIONS ARE GOVERENED BY GAS REGULATIONS CARAVANS PROVIDED THEY ARE NOT HIRED OUT ARE NOT GOVERENED BY GAS REGULATIONS as for your last post you stated that the nearest LPG forecourt was OVER 10 miles away from Skegness WRONG it's only 7 anyway no matter where the LPG forecourts are you probably pass one on the way to your destination so travelling to one does NOT come into it. If as you say you work in the LPG gas industry then you of all people should know the gas regulations if you don't then I suggest you check on them because if you don't you will be putting your employers customers into danger. As I said calor gas cylinders belong to calor, selling them anywhere is breaking the law, because that is classed as handling stolen property. If you don't believe me then try selling one at a car boot sale but before you sell it phone the police and see what they do but mention that the cylinder belongs to calor and you do not have the authority to sell it.
I also said that the gas locker on all caravans is sealed from the habitable compartment and any leakage vents to the outside air, LPG is heavier than air that is why the vents are in the floor thus enabling any leaked gas to leave the locker so you must never block them, so how can the caravan blow up unless it's you who go looking for the leak with a lighted match, also did you know that it is illegal to have any elecrical connections in the gas locker just for the purpose if a short should occur the leaked gas will not ignite, then the insurance company will not pay out. As for everyone has there own idea of whats right and whats (whars as you say) wrong, if it is against the law then it is wrong if it's not then it is not and it's not my right it's the law. Also abit is not one word it is a bit, engineers has 2 e's in it, installation has 2 l's in it,connecting has 2 n's in it, your spelling of points is wrong your spelling of qualifications is wrong. For someone who is trying to say a lot you cannot spell very well.You also mention ADR if that's what I think it is then that is the initials of a French phrase which governs the transportation of dangerous goods and has nothing to do with the USE of LPG
Also you can get insurance through the Caravan Club and they state that gas regulations DO NOT apply to caravans and that any competent person can fit a gas system. Any insurance company will try to wriggle out of paying up on a claim but if nothing is amiss then they must pay out, regardless of who fitted the system.
BEFORE YOU FLAP YOUR GUMS PUT YOUR BRAIN IN GEAR.
Total Posts: 28
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Posted: 6 years ago
here hear well said
Total Posts: 314
Reported
Posted: 6 years ago
what fun, I will reel him in soon! if he's not blown himself up :-)
sorry if spelt wrong we can all be good at everything like some people ;-)
Total Posts: 314
Reported
Posted: 6 years ago
'just shows how much YOU know about gas regulations, no one but no one is allowed to touch domestic gas installations if they are connected to the gas supply unless they are gas safety registered'
for your info if its an LPG installation I am allowed to change the 47kg cylinders & they are the gas supply on a domestic gas instalation without being gas safe registered because its BEFORE the regulator. Think you are mixing up LPG with mains gas there?!

'You also mention ADR '
if that's what I think it is then that is the initials of a French phrase which governs the transportation of dangerous goods and has nothing to do with the USE of LPG'
It is for the carriage of dangerous goods & I didn't say it had anything ' to do with the USE of LPG' it does tell you what LPG can do if not treated with respect!
I did say I know the cylinders should NOT be sold on car boots, e-bay, etc, I just said they are sold this way, I know because I work for a LARGE gas cylinder company & see it all the time. Noy saying its right justit happens!

Finally I have not said that anyone can't fit one of these systems I just said, I, thats ME, doesn't think its a good idea for anyone to do it themselfs, if people want to then thats up to them. I just think the saving people are quoting are not what MOST caravaners would save, in fact I think it wouldn't save most at all.
BUT THATS JUST WHAT I THINK!!
:-)
Total Posts: 228
Reported
Posted: 6 years ago
LPG is not gas supply it's bottled gas, if " so I do know a bit about gas from doing my ADT" is not implying that you know something about gas regulations then I don't know what is.
You cannot even read your own posts you DID NOT mention anything about cylinders should not be sold in car boot sales or ebay for that matter.
If " Who's fitting this delivered for £394 as ANY gas installation requires a gas safe registered fitter" is not implying that only gas safe fitters can fit them then as I said before I don't know what is.
What you think is a load of TOSH, from the first fill you are saving and you continue to save until you recoup the cost of the system then the cost of the gas is aprox 50% the cost of calor gas, the time it takes to do that depends on each individuals usage. When that happens I will be paying £18 for 2 bottles of LPG and you will be paying £42
PS mines payed for in just over 1 year
By installing a system and paying less than half the price of calor gas you could be,if you think of it in another term, paying for the system on credit, have you not bought anything on credit, a car for instance.
By what you are implying then just use public transport it's not worth buying a car it will take years to pay off. If that was the case then the buses , trains etc would be crammed and the car industy would go down the tubes.

AS I SAID BEFORE PUT YOUR BRAINS IN GEAR BEFORE YOU FLAP YOUR GUMS
Total Posts: 314
Reported
Posted: 6 years ago
whatever I am bored now, you have the system & think everyone should have one, fair enough, I don't & thats where it ends, there is no need to put
AS I SAID BEFORE PUT YOUR BRAINS IN GEAR BEFORE YOU FLAP YOUR GUMS
this is a forum & I can put MY opinion (even if I spell things wrong!!) & you can put yours, BUT there is no need to get personal when you don't agree & if you think I have put something that is wrong flag it up to the people who run the site they will take it off if its not correct!!
Total Posts: 28
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Posted: 6 years ago
I
Total Posts: 28
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Posted: 6 years ago
I think i will stay out of this one as i know nothing about gas except it is good for cooking on. Be nice have a good day all.
Total Posts: 228
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Posted: 6 years ago
Have a nice hol mr Insect, bbq's are nice to cook on as well
Total Posts: 155
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Posted: 6 years ago
I use a single safefil refillable gas cylinder.
It is easy to fill and cuts off when it is 80% full.
It is lighter than a normal cylinder when its full.
The are filling station all over the country who are allowed to fill them.
I
Total Posts: 228
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Posted: 6 years ago
Worth the initial cost then ? I have a 2 bottle set up saves me £24 every time I fill up.
Total Posts: 52
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Posted: 6 years ago
Please keep your comments constructive, it is a shame to have to delete posts that contain helpful information. Everyone is aloud an opinion, it is fine to agree to disagree, please continue posting in keeping with the good nature this forum was created. Thank you
Total Posts: 228
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Posted: 6 years ago
I put these posts on this forum to help people I do not put them on for others to start criticizing with incorrect information if my info is incorrect then I will apologise and correct it, also it is up the individual what they do with it, some might benefit from it others might say it's not for them if it is not for them don't criticize it.
Total Posts: 228
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Posted: 6 years ago
Further to my original post if a 2 bottle set up is too big for people who do not use alot of gas then consider the 1 bottle set up, in total £188 delivered from Hamiltons, and is the equivalent of 9 bottles of calor lite once payed for a saving of £12 every time it is filled.
If the 6kg bottle is just not big enough then a 11kg bottle is only £9 more.
I do not have anything to do with Hamiltons it's just that I found that their prices were at the time I bought my set up were the cheapest.
If anybody has found them cheaper elsewhere then post it advice is greatfully received
Total Posts: 228
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Posted: 6 years ago

Caravan gas installations are NOT covered by domestic gas regulations, so anyone and I mean anyone can install refillable gas installations into their caravans as a diy project, it's a different matter if that caravan is hired out to the public, because then the caravan owner becomes a landlord and THEY ARE goverened by gas regulations, as I said before and please take note people DOMESTIC GAS INSTALLATIONS ARE GOVERENED BY GAS REGULATIONS, INDUSTRIAL GAS INSTALLATIONS ARE GOVERENED BY GAS REGULATIONS, CARAVANS PROVIDED THEY ARE NOT HIRED OUT ARE NOT GOVERENED BY GAS REGULATIONS where the LPG forecourts are does'nt enter the equation as you probably pass one on the way to your destination so travelling to one does NOT come into it. Calor gas cylinders belong to calor, selling them anywhere is breaking the law, because that is classed as handling stolen property. If you don't believe me then try selling one at a car boot sale but before you sell it phone the police and see what they do but mention that the cylinder belongs to calor and you do not have the authority to sell it.
I also said that the gas locker on all caravans is sealed from the habitable compartment and any leakage vents to the outside air, LPG is heavier than air that is why the vents are in the floor thus enabling any leaked gas to leave the locker so you must never block them, so how can the caravan blow up unless it's you who go looking for the leak with a lighted match, also it is illegal to have any elecrical connections in the gas locker just for the purpose if a short should occur the leaked gas will not ignite, then the insurance company will not pay out. As for everyone having there own idea of whats right and whats wrong, if it is against the law then it is wrong if it's not then it is not and it's not my right it's the law You can get insurance through the Caravan Club and they state that gas regulations DO NOT apply to caravans and that any competent person can fit a gas system. Any insurance company will try to wriggle out of paying up on a claim but if nothing is amiss then they must pay out, regardless of who fitted the system.
Total Posts: 228
Please correct the mistakes below:
Posted: 6 years ago
If you install one of these systems from the first fill you are saving and you continue to save until you recoup the cost of the system then the cost of the gas is aprox 50% the cost of calor gas, the time it takes to do that depends on each individuals usage. If the 2 bottle set up is too big then consider a 1 bottle set up the cost I have outlined in a previous post.
By installing a system and paying less than half the price of calor gas you could be,if you think of it in another term, paying for the system on credit, have you not bought anything on credit, a car for instance, and saying that it takes a long time to recoup the cost what about say you bought a motor mover, a boon to someone who cannot man handle a caravan, you never recoup the cost of that unless you sell it.
Total Posts: 228
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Posted: 6 years ago
Fitting one of these systems is so easy, heres an explination, the bottles come with 2 factory installed valves in each bottle, one is the normal on - off valve the other is a 2 part valve, one part has a float attached to it so that you cannot overfill the bottle, these bottles only fill to 80% of their capacity that is to ensure that should the liquid gas want to expand because of ambient temperatures it can, otherwise the bottle could explode. The other part is a non return valve which prevents the gas from backfilling the filling hose, on a 2 bottle setup these non return valves prevent the bottles from backfilling one another no matter which one should empty first.
The most dangerous part of the setup is in fact the pigtail side, if a leak should occurr then if you do not detect it then it continues to leak so long as the on - off valve remains in the on position, some people only turn the bottles off when going out for the day so could possibly remain on for a long period. The filling side if it leaks can only leak when you are filling the bottles, because when you stop filling, by virtue of the non return valves, the leak stops so if you are confident in disconnecting and reconnecting calor bottles or any other bottles for that matter to your caravan then you should be able to fit one of these systems without fear of retribution from anyone even your insurance company as explained in a previous post.
Filling these bottles is also very easy the nozzle from the pump locates in the filler valve then is twisted to secure it, you then pull the trigger and it locks, there is a red button on the side of the pump which must be pressed and pressed continually to dispense gas, the pump automatically stops dispensing gas once the float inside the bottles shuts off the 2 part valve at 80% capacity, you then release the trigger twist the nozzle and a loud hiss occurs this is only the gas in the pipes dissipating and is nothing to worry about so there you have it your bottles are now full with gas
Total Posts: 51
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Posted: 6 years ago
Any one have any comments on the safefill bottles?
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